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Nick Oswald: hello, and welcome to another edition of the happy scientist podcast it's the place to be if you want to become a happier healthier and more productive scientist.

Nick Oswald: My name is Nick and i'm the founder of bite sized bio.com and today, as usual, we are drawing on the wisdom of Mr Kenneth.

Nick Oswald: bite size bios Mr miyagi and the founder of the executive mentoring company of your recruiters.

Nick Oswald: Today, and and all other happy scientists podcast episodes you get to benefit from ken's wisdom to help increase your performance enjoyment and success in the lab in today's episode Ken is going to take you right out of your comfort zone.

Nick Oswald: This episode is called.

Nick Oswald: There is no such thing as a comfort zone okay can we've got to hear this.

kennethvogt: Okay, well, let us first acknowledge that we all like to be comfortable I mean who doesn't like to be comfortable and the notion of a comfort zone is a very, very familiar one.

kennethvogt: And we've seen what happens when people are outside their comfort zone or are we've experienced that ourselves.

And we don't like it.

kennethvogt: And so the question is.

kennethvogt: Is that do we need to circle, the wagons every time we're outside of our comfort zone is that an emergency, do we have to fix that is there really a problem there.

kennethvogt: And then the curse the the supposition of the title is this is there actually such a thing as a comfort zone if we just been making this stuff up out of whole cloth.

kennethvogt: So, the fact is we do make things stuff out of whole cloth we do it all the time and we've created all kinds of zones in our world they're they're useful, you know we have hospitals zones and school zones and time zones and you know these things aren't necessarily.

kennethvogt: Naturally, in existence, but we found a reason why they'd be useful, so we created them, and you know now, it makes things convenient or safe or there's some other type of structural benefit, and so, so we use it and we we come to common agreement about that.

kennethvogt: And zones can be any kind of form, you just you never know it could be like like, for instance, a time zone all time zones are based on on where you are on on the globe, you know it's all about longitude.

kennethvogt: Except you know, some countries will actually break that rule because maybe their country spans more than one time zone but they find it more convenient to just solve the one time zone, so they do.

kennethvogt: And if you look, if you look at like a map of the globe, sometimes, you will see the Nice straight line for time zones and then they'll be this jetting out to somewhere else.

kennethvogt: Because that's what they're doing practically because you know that's what you can do you can make his own work any way you want yeah and you know zones exist by by mutual agreement but here's This is where comfort zones get kind of weird.

kennethvogt: Because I don't have to agree with Nick about what my comfort zone is and he doesn't have to agree with me, but what his comfort zone is.

kennethvogt: And we don't we don't have to work together on this, that are our comfort zones could actually be in conflict with each other yeah it can be a real mess and and some folks you know.

kennethvogt: Some folks will really take issue with the choices that we've made about comfort zones and and or there'll be offended by or though or there will feel imposed on upon by it.

kennethvogt: So, if you think about like as an example let's take roller coasters as an example, I, for one, find that to be jarring and noisy at, but there are probably others of you to think they are fun and exciting.

kennethvogt: roller coasters are outside of my comfort zone now now that i'm an adult in that way, more than 50 pounds.

Nick Oswald: Oh come on.

kennethvogt: When I didn't have much.

kennethvogt: Mass I love them.

kennethvogt: But, so the point being is that.

kennethvogt: You know i'm not trying to talk anybody into to liking roller coasters and not liking them.

kennethvogt: it's just this is my present experience and it's where I draw that that line prison but there, there may be benefits for me to.

kennethvogt: To stop drawing that line there was like you make us even push back in it, oh Come on, you should enjoy come you don't know what you're missing out on you can get on roller coasters I have a blast and you know well it's true it's possible that could happen so.

Nick Oswald: So yeah.

kennethvogt: Go ahead.

Nick Oswald: No, I was just laughing.

kennethvogt: Okay.

kennethvogt: So so so right right away, you know this, we think about our comfort zone get our we're going to have to recognize that there are some real flaws in the notion of a comfort zone, the first is there's no consensus on what it should be or shouldn't be.

kennethvogt: there's.

kennethvogt: it's understood that they generally made up personal choices, that is, and therefore there's there's no continuity.

kennethvogt: My comfort zone can be very different from from your comfort zone and vice versa, and there's no standards so.

kennethvogt: My comfort zone could be could be really crackpot you know cooked up on the most flimsy of excuses or is yours can be just very solid based on on on hard experience and and serious science, you know.

kennethvogt: But there's nothing like that comfort zones so it's like, why are we doing this, why, why would you use this just pathetic criteria to create something that will have such a huge impact on your life.

kennethvogt: So, so the question then is all right, I i've been i've been operating on a certain comfort zone, and I really, really don't like it when i'm outside of that song, but you know, is there anything you can do about it.

kennethvogt: Well, yes, there is.

kennethvogt: Because yeah well, the first thing you can look at is what is the impact of these comfort zones i've created have I put barriers in my own way.

kennethvogt: Are they holding me back, are they keeping me from things will be truly beneficial in my life or even worse than that, or at least comfort zones, causing me problems, you know.

kennethvogt: An example i'd use, like me, maybe a having a quarter Ben and jerry's ice cream would be in your comfort zone but then again, are you comfortable with your your President wait, are you comfortable with your with your lactose intolerant.

kennethvogt: that there may be all kinds of negative things about this, I wallowing in self pity is that really helping you, you know so in the fact that it's comfortable to go do something like that doesn't mean that it's good for you.

kennethvogt: You know, for the other hand, on the other side, you know, there are things like law you're comfortable having a paycheck well that makes you get up and go to work every day well that's not a terrible thing.

kennethvogt: But if you hate your job and it's making you sick and you're bringing home your anxiety to your family.

kennethvogt: You know, maybe this notion of comfort isn't so great, maybe you need to reassess what it what it actually means so so my point is is that.

kennethvogt: This thing that you've called a comfort zone.

kennethvogt: it's made up.

kennethvogt: It isn't chiseled and granted, it is not even agreed upon by society, you know it's it's it's the worst kind of negative fantasy, and so you can do something entirely different you can you can say you know i'm no longer be held to that restriction.

kennethvogt: and

kennethvogt: You know so so, for instance, a lot of it comes down to how you language about it, what you have to say to you in your own self talk in your own head, that is.

kennethvogt: You know, do you do you long for.

kennethvogt: cheetos cheetos she just brings up such positive memories, in my mind, and that that wonderful flavor and then again, you can look at and go, these are cheese coated deep fried cholesterol chips i'm not doing it yeah.

kennethvogt: That doesn't make me feel good that doesn't make me comfortable, but you know getting on the fresh air right now would make me comfortable, as opposed to somebody who's telling themselves like it's cold out, it might rain uh you know the air smells funny.

kennethvogt: With it, a lot of this comes down to merely how the story we're telling us about things, and if we tell a story that's uncomfortable we're going to be uncomfortable.

kennethvogt: But if we tell us third that is comfortable, we can get comfortable and you can do that about things that have made you uncomfortable in the past.

kennethvogt: merely by by describing it to yourself in a different way about making different associations with it, so that you don't so you don't feel the same way about it that you used to.

kennethvogt: And you know feelings are very malleable you don't have to feel any particular way.

kennethvogt: Not I, I want to add a proviso your I understand that some folks are you know they're dealing with with serious depression or bipolar issues where.

kennethvogt: They don't feel entirely and control their feelings i'm not talking about that, but i'm talking about you know your your average everyday feelings that many of us.

kennethvogt: really do have a choice, you have a choice whether or not to be irritated or whether or not to let things go, you have a choice whether or not.

kennethvogt: to feel pressured or to chill out, you know you have a choice whether or not to be to be interested or be bored.

kennethvogt: You know that one, especially as a pet peeve of mine, I used to tell my kids when they did i'm bored yeah well guess what boredom is a self inflicted problem, and you know I only had to say that to the kids a couple times and amazingly they found things to do, who knew.

kennethvogt: But you know we look, we look outside ourselves to change our feelings i'm bored dad you fix it no you're bored you fix it.

kennethvogt: And when we got to treat ourselves that way to be we've got to make got to make an effort to decide what is comfortable and what isn't now another thing is how we treat our sensations you know if you're having pain that doesn't automatically turn to suffering.

kennethvogt: There there's times when we actually enjoy pain when you're at the gym and you're getting a good workout you like that pain it's not suffering.

kennethvogt: But in other cases, you know you get a little bitty sliver in new and Oh well, that's that's horrible I got to fix that right now we don't tolerate.

kennethvogt: That you know so that could slivers outside of my comfort zone that's fair but you know running for an hour may not be outside your comfort zone.

kennethvogt: Now for some of you hearing that like running for an hour sounds about 59 minutes outside of my comfort zone well.

kennethvogt: This goes to show that there are options that you can make choices yeah obviously some people are better shape to do certain things and others.

kennethvogt: Some people will find you know reading yet another nother deep book, you know very painful experience and very hard others that they would do that just for fun.

kennethvogt: So.

kennethvogt: The point is here.

kennethvogt: Is that it's up to you.

Nick Oswald: You run for fun.

kennethvogt: yeah yeah.

Nick Oswald: waits for fun.

kennethvogt: Exactly yeah or the you know, some people hate to cook and other people love to cook.

Nick Oswald: It is interesting that because you're just talking about what you have convinced yourself.

Nick Oswald: Is the case yeah.

kennethvogt: Basically yeah.

Nick Oswald: i'm not saying.

kennethvogt: So you know you know do yourself a favor make up something expansive glorious and dynamic and make that inside your comfort zone.

kennethvogt: You know challenge yourself and feel good about challenges and when something fails, you know when you fall on your face laugh and get up you know whether it's you know literally physically or whether it's figuratively.

kennethvogt: But you can read you can respond that way we've all seen that, with a little kid to falls down and there's this.

kennethvogt: Everybody freezes for a second, to see how they react.

kennethvogt: And if the kid gets up laughing it's all good and if they get up crying oh no, you know we all have to go down that road, and sometimes you see that, with a kid and you see the kid tribe is trying to decide which way, am I supposed to go what.

kennethvogt: I felt signaling me to.

Nick Oswald: do remember that we used to.

Nick Oswald: You know when the kids fail kind of achieved tier oh you're okay anyway.

Nick Oswald: there's.

Nick Oswald: You know there's a one zone where they would have done that anyway there's the zone where even if you even if you do that they're going to cry because at heart, but there's a Gray zone in the middle, we listen to this call oh yeah i'm fine.

kennethvogt: They just needed another input.

kennethvogt: So you know and.

kennethvogt: that's how great when we're doing that, with with somebody else and, by the way, you can do that, you can help other people expand their comfort zones, but you know what start with you.

kennethvogt: It because the more you're comfortable with these your life is if your comfort zone is very narrow you're going to keep bumping up against it you're going to keep stepping over the edge it's not going to be fun.

kennethvogt: But you're gonna have more enjoyable life, if you will go out of your way to expand your comfort zone.

kennethvogt: and try so that's what i've got for now.

fantastic.

Nick Oswald: Okay well there's not much I can say to that that was very, very miyagi just let the wisdom flow.

Nick Oswald: But no, is definitely what I mean one one observation I guess is that is that you can watch yourself up to that know and One example is in running, for example.

Nick Oswald: You know the people there's lots of anecdotes of people who you know, do you know the coach to five key APP, for example, I don't know if you know about that, but it's like a it's like a.

Nick Oswald: kind of as an APP that takes you through the very, very, very slow on ramp into people to run five key after I think it's a 12 week thing you start off mostly walking.

Nick Oswald: And then it gets you up there.

Nick Oswald: And for in the beginning, is very the running is very uncomfortable but by the end of it a lot of people actually really enjoy the running.

Nick Oswald: And then we'll start doing that for fun and you can see that that's because they've got their fitness up, but equally it's because they've got they've they've they've consistently worked at their mindset and so, if you can't immediately flip yourself into I enjoy.

Nick Oswald: Apples and not cheetos or whatever it is, then, then, and it doesn't flip straight away, you can just use willpower to get over that and that's part of that when we talked about habit formation that's you know that's part of the thing so.

Nick Oswald: I get psyched out a lot by or it's not flip straightaway so it's never going to flip and so that's just an encouragement to that if that's you as well, then just keep going keep pointing away with willpower and eventually we'll get there.

kennethvogt: yeah.

kennethvogt: There is one way that.

Nick Oswald: I know I like doing things a difficult way apparently so.

kennethvogt: it's like yeah I will I will.

kennethvogt: reveal one of my little pet things I I really like things to be neat and clean, I like I like to be a place for everything and everything is placed Is this a lot of benefits for that for me.

kennethvogt: Where I can step out of my comfort zone know as if I enter a messy environment or around somebody who doesn't share that that viewpoint.

kennethvogt: Well i've learned that I can get comfortable with other people they're not as leaders, not as clean as me I can be fine with that because I bothered to stretch my comfort zone and I way.

kennethvogt: And, and you know I the argument could have made major like maybe you should be an advocate for cleanliness and neatness and and you know we'll see.

kennethvogt: I don't know I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth dying on that hill so.

kennethvogt: You know, let people be what they are and and go with that now Obviously there are there are situations that you in the laps specifically where.

kennethvogt: Where cleanliness might be absolutely critical and you just cannot tolerate that so you're not what so the comfort zone is to get everybody on board and Look how important this is and.

kennethvogt: And let's make it work for everybody and or to get people out that are not going to cooperate, you know, so I mean there's advantages to having a comfort zone.

kennethvogt: But they're they're great disadvantages to have in comfort zones some comfort zones also so you know let's just make sure that we we make the choices on purpose.

yeah.

Nick Oswald: As always, can excellent wisdom and yeah, this is another one for me to fail away.

Nick Oswald: and listen to it again.

Nick Oswald: Okay, thanks again again and again.

Nick Oswald: You can see i'm not sure if there's anything to go on the short notes notes on this one, but if there are show notes, then you can.

Nick Oswald: Maybe we'll put it we'll put the coach to five key up in the in the show notes for this one.

Nick Oswald: always good if you like, to get if you want to get into running.

Nick Oswald: You can find that the show notes at bite size by.com forward slash the happy scientist, and this is episode 53.

Nick Oswald: and, obviously, you can find all of our other podcast episodes there and some other podcasts there as well, you might find interesting them across campus and four stars and and so on, and also, you can join us on facebook.com forward slash the happy scientist club all one word and.

Nick Oswald: You know, there you can ask us questions or gauge content or or whatever you would like to do and That just leaves me to thank you again Ken for another fantastic.

Nick Oswald: i'm trying to find a Mr miyagi.

Nick Oswald: sort of work there, but I can't so another.

Nick Oswald: Fantastic episode and we will see you again next time.

kennethvogt: Right very good.

Nick Oswald: Thank you.

Nick Oswald: bye bye.