VX: 00:30

This is the Happy Scientist podcast. Each episode is designed to make you more focused, more productive, and more satisfied in the lab. You can find us online at bitesizebiodot com/happyscientist. Your hosts are Kenneth Vogt, founder of the executive coaching firm, Vera Claritas, and doctor Nick Oswald, PhD, bioscientist, and founder of Bite Size Bio.

Kenneth Vogt: 01:00

Hello. This is Kenneth Vogt welcoming you to this Bite Size Bio webinar, which today is a live episode of the Happy Scientist podcast. If you wanna become a happier, healthier, and more productive scientist, you're in the right place. Today, alas, I am all alone without Nick Oswald. Nick is is out for today, but I will do my best to, give you everything you need.

Kenneth Vogt: 01:28

In these sessions, we we talk about principles that'll help you shape yourself to be a happier and more successful scientist in your scientific career. And along the way, we will sometimes hear from Nick, which not today, but in future episodes, you definitely will. If you have any questions along the way, put them into the questions box on the side of your screen, and then I'll do my best to address them. So today, I'll be covering the topic getting dead practical about to do lists, and the notion is to align your lists with your work style. So bear with me a little bit.

Kenneth Vogt: 02:17

I feel kinda like, the wizard of Oz behind the screen today, pulling a bunch of levers and turning a bunch of knobs. And and that's even with the help of, Connor Connor, the producer on this episode today. So if I if I if I act a little flustered, don't worry about it. I'll get over it. So to do list, this we actually have broken into into 2 parts.

Kenneth Vogt: 02:42

We're gonna do a second webinar on this because there's so much to talk about. Today, we're gonna talk about the the real practical side of this, about how do you figure out what to use for a to do list, what, you know, what would work best for you, what will get you the results that you need, what will allow you to to move forward and accomplish things on a daily basis, a weekly basis, a monthly basis, whatever whatever time frame you wanna look at, you wanna make sure that you get the most out of this. So I'll begin with, you're probably doing something already. Right? And it has to do with how your, you know, your own mind works.

Kenneth Vogt: 03:31

For some of us, there's just just chaos going on all the time in our heads, and I don't mean that in a negative way necessarily. Just we have a lot going on. We we're holding all this in our heads, and some people actually are quite good at that. And they can hold a tremendous amount of of detail at any given moment. For others, they find that very distracting.

Kenneth Vogt: 03:55

They they really prefer to have an empty mind that's clear so that when they decide to use it, they can put in there what they want and focus on it. So the first thing you want to look at is what are you doing now, and is it working for you, or is it failing? And it might be that it sort of works for you, or it's familiar enough that you get stuff done, but you feel like you could do better. And there would be nothing wrong with coming away from this webinar feeling feeling satisfied that what you're doing works for you, and that's great. You don't have to change things just for the sake of change.

Kenneth Vogt: 04:41

On the other hand, there's constant new development, new opportunities, new things that we can do, and it's worth reassessing every once in a while. Now if I go back in my own personal career, back in the day, I did everything on paper. And at the beginning, it was just a notepad. And, I mean, I went through notepad after notepad after notepad. Oh, my.

Kenneth Vogt: 05:07

And then one day, I heard about this system called Daytimers. Again, it's a paper system in a in a in a nice leather bound little book with with removable pages for each day. And, you know, each page was laid out in a certain familiar way. And I was like, oh, man, I I started doing that, and I just loved it. Oh my.

Kenneth Vogt: 05:32

It it was so great. It fit my personal style really well. I carried that day timers with me everywhere I went. The only time I put it down is when I went to sleep at night. I took it everywhere, and I used it.

Kenneth Vogt: 05:48

And and it really worked great for me for the time I was using it, and I believe they still exist. And if there's other things like it you know, I think Franklin Covey's got a system like that too. If you like the the pen and paper method and it works for you, don't feel like you have to go computerized, that you have to do it on your phone or your laptop. You don't. You can use whatever system works for you, but I will caution you not to be a Luddite.

Kenneth Vogt: 06:20

Don't don't just get stuck with, well, this is the way I've always done it, because new things pop up and sometimes you want to check it out and see, will this will this take me forward? Will this get me places I couldn't go before? Now there's one thing that that really hooked me about online systems at at one point, and that was hyperlinks. The idea I could click on something and open it up. I can't do that with my day timers.

Kenneth Vogt: 06:49

I couldn't do that with a notepad. If it needed to reference something else, I didn't know that I could find it. So if you need that kind of thing, there's lots and lots of systems out there that can provide that that opportunity for you. But I wanna roll back to what what's on the screen here and what real why I chose these two pictures. I, especially as a younger man, definitely had a chaotic mind, and I knew I needed to have something to order that, and that spoke to me.

Kenneth Vogt: 07:23

Now later in later in life, I don't have a chaotic mind anymore. I really do like to have that clean slate to focus on things as as I'm working on them, as that has required me to change the methodologies that I use. And we'll talk about some of those things, and I'll talk about this historically, but understand you didn't have to go through this history and you get to benefit from those who did. So so let's let's move on to the next step. There are a couple different philosophies out there on how to approach being productive.

Kenneth Vogt: 08:04

Some like, 25 years ago, a seminal book was put out by David Allen that was called Getting Things Done. 288 pages. He's a good writer, but it's it's a lot of information. If you're somebody who's really detail oriented, you really care about about having a t to cross and an I to dot, David Allen really will speak to you. I loved this book 25 years ago, and I would still recommend it today, but it's not for everybody.

Kenneth Vogt: 08:47

And it's if you are more of a, a spatial thinker, if you're if you're not all about the details, but you're you're about the bigger picture, Getting things done is going to be a hard read for you. It's not I'm not saying it's not worth looking into. It is. But you may look at it and go, this is not practical for me. And I think that's been the case for a lot of folks.

Kenneth Vogt: 09:17

A lot of folks love it. A lot of hard driving individuals who who accomplished a great deal are using the methodologies that that David Allen proposed in this book. And there are a lot of systems, you know, online systems and tools and apps that have been developed based on this. And it's great. But the fact is, for some folks, it's just too much.

Kenneth Vogt: 09:44

And it isn't it isn't the matter of, oh, you're not smart enough to do it David's way. That's not not going to be the factor. It isn't about you're not disciplined enough. It's about how you process the world. You see things in a certain way that don't match the way that somebody who thinks like David Allen sees things.

Kenneth Vogt: 10:05

Now we've talked about this in the past, and I would suggest you go back to some of our initial podcast episodes that talk about core mindsets. David Allen is very blue according to that that, structure. But you might be orange. You might be green. You might be red.

Kenneth Vogt: 10:25

There may be there may be other things that would make more sense for you. So I won't leave you hanging here. It's like, well, great. You just described me. I'm I'm the person that would not get along with this David Allen philosophy.

Kenneth Vogt: 10:40

What am I supposed to do? I have another suggestion for you, a different book. It's called Zen to done, z e n to done, by Leo Babauta, and I'm sure that was a take on getting things done when he wrote it. Now getting things done, 288 pages. Zenden on 91 pages.

Kenneth Vogt: 11:02

Very easy read. And Leah Babata, the author of Zendeskhan, is a minimalist. I mean, he's a proponent of the minimalist philosophy. And of of all the people I've seen out there that that that promote that philosophy, I I really like Leo's outlook on things. Zendeskhan really takes the core of what's in getting things done instead of how would a minimalist do this?

Kenneth Vogt: 11:36

The advantage of the minimalist approach is you don't have to have every little thing figured out. You don't have to have everything planned at every given moment, and in many cases, that is the only way that will work. Now you're building the space shuttle. Yeah. You probably need that super detailed plan.

Kenneth Vogt: 11:53

But if you are creating things on the fly as it were, and I think a lot of of science, especially biology, is like that, you're responding to new data that you know, whatever data you just got now, what do we do? You can't even know what you're gonna do next until you've been you've been through that path. So Zenith then really helps with that. Now there are some there are some techniques out there in the world of how you will approach things that can help too. So one thing that's been around for a long time is called the Pomodoro technique.

Kenneth Vogt: 12:26

The Pomodoro technique is quite simple. It's basically when you have decided what you're going to do next I mean, right now, what is the next thing you're going to do? You set a timer for 20 minutes. You go and do it, and it's especially helpful when you have tasks that that you're resisting doing. So, like, look, I'm I'm only committing 20 minutes to this.

Kenneth Vogt: 12:50

When the timer goes off, I can decide I'm not gonna I'm gonna move on to something else. I have found that technique very powerful and and especially to keep you doing things that are hard, that that you're resisting for one reason or another. Because it when the timer goes off in 20 minutes and you're already engaged, you kinda don't wanna stop, so it helps. So you can you can use this to work your to do list and not run away from the things you're afraid of. Our next our next webinar, we're gonna talk about the emotional nature of of your to do list and all that, but so I don't wanna get into too much of this right now, but the notion is you can use the getting things done method, you can use the zen to done method, and a Pomodoro technique will work with either one.

Kenneth Vogt: 13:44

Another thing that's been popular, and and this comes from the software development world, they used to be back in the day, Now y'all may remember, I'm a soft software developer from way back, so that's why this is why I reference this. We'd use this method called the waterfall method, and the waterfall method worked as a method for getting things done, but it didn't work real well. And software has this horrible reputation for never being done on time. It it's it's almost impossible to plan for the future around that. And so a new method was developed called the agile method.

Kenneth Vogt: 14:28

Agile is just a a project management approach, and this relates to to do lists, and I'll I'll talk about that in a minute. But the the idea here is you can do things in shorter bursts of deep focus on particular things, whatever you're working on right now. Even though you got a lot of other important things that you're gonna do, right now, you can only do the thing you're doing. And you gotta this is part of the philosophy how to to pick what kind of deduce system you're gonna use. You know, do I have 10 things going on at all times and I gotta have my fingers in every pie at all moments, or can I put things in series?

Kenneth Vogt: 15:08

Can I focus on one thing in a mind at a time, that is? And as you do that, that can help you help you decide what's gonna come next. So let's talk about picking a tool. So what are the things that you're gonna do? And this may have a lot to do with you personally.

Kenneth Vogt: 15:29

The the scientist at the next bench over may choose a different method than you based on the answers to the questions that we're we're about to discuss here, and that's perfectly fine. Your work style does matter. The way your mind works does matter. Now are you somebody that that needs to write things, everything down every day? Are you somebody that has to, you know, for your for your own satisfaction to accomplish a lot of things?

Kenneth Vogt: 15:58

Do you need to check a lot of things off? Other people, that's that's not so much their drivers. They don't they don't have to record everything or they don't have to they don't have to to check the boxes. That's not the point. They they rather just focus, and and that's that's a different way of approaching things.

Kenneth Vogt: 16:19

And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that idea that I wanna figure out what I'm gonna do today and go do it versus I just wanna know what's the next thing to do. And now what's the next thing to do? And now what's the next thing to do? It's a different approach to life. So let's look at some of these questions.

Kenneth Vogt: 16:37

So the first thing about your the to do tool that you that you wanna look at is, what does this thing need to accomplish? Do I need a place where I can record everything that I'm ultimately gonna have to do so that I don't have to remember everything? Is it is it primarily a recording tool so I just know what has to happen? Do I need things to pop up at a certain time so that I'm not distracted by the sea of things I could be doing, and instead, I know that this is the thing I should be doing right now? How much detail does this system have to have?

Kenneth Vogt: 17:15

Do you just need to have a one word, one phrase prompt, or do you need a paragraph for everything that you're doing? Do you need to have hyperlinks, as I mentioned earlier, through documents and protocols and and any other supporting material that'll be necessary. If you're doing that on sticky notes, it may not work very well for you. It could work for you, though, in something as simple as a spreadsheet because you can have a link there. Right?

Kenneth Vogt: 17:45

Now it may be that that is still not not robust enough for you, and maybe you're not an Excel wizard. Now maybe you are and you really like it and you can work it that way. God bless. Do do do what works for you. But, you know, there are many, many systems out there that are available, and I'm not gonna list off a bunch of them because, honestly, it keeps changing.

Kenneth Vogt: 18:09

It keeps growing, and I don't know them all. There's just no way to know. Good old Google does, though, and you can find plenty of places where it lists, potential systems you could use, potential apps you could use, and reviews them. Now, you know, you gotta read all that with a a grain of salt. Some of them are biased, but some of them are, you know, legitimately researched.

Kenneth Vogt: 18:33

And and, I mean, it's not that hard to tell when you're when you're looking at something. If they're if they're they're not giving you any detail, if they're advertising the very things for sale that they're presenting, okay, well, maybe biased. But even even those, even if they have a certain bias, doesn't mean they're not giving you good information. So it's worth doing a little research and and just looking for the things that are out there. And, look, you know, if having a way that you can that you can record detail in it matters, that's that's something to look for in those systems as you're digging around.

Kenneth Vogt: 19:12

Now for some of you, your to do list may be a daily planner, but it might also be kind of an alarm clock. So, you know, you gotta look into what what capabilities have. Does it remind me to do things? It's not just that it were that it made a record of things I need to do, but it reminds me to do them at a certain time. That that is a useful to useful characteristic to have if that's what you need.

Kenneth Vogt: 19:38

Okay. Does your to do list need to be shareable with other people? If you're collaborating with others, if you have team members who work for you and you're assigning tasks to them from your to do list, that might that might matter. It might then be that you have to have a way to get other people to use the system that you're using. So, again, in in examining any particular to do system, you may wanna look for that.

Kenneth Vogt: 20:04

If you're gonna use an electronic kind of system, and most of us probably are, does it need to work on your computer? Does it need to work on your phone? Does it need to work on both? Do I if I make a change on my phone, you know, when I'm out and about, will it be changed on my computerized system? Or what I really wanna warn you against is having multiple systems here, because what'll happen is you'll update 1, and you won't update the other.

Kenneth Vogt: 20:37

And one of the things that happens if you're going from having a pen and paper system to to an electronic system is that you always get that notebook in your pocket pocket. Right? And you always scribble on that. If it doesn't make it out of your notebook into your other system, which one has priority? And especially if you if you're used to using, a pen and paper system, you won't you will never fully make use of that electronic system until you commit to it.

Kenneth Vogt: 21:09

So you gotta you gotta do that. So if you have assist something like that, and maybe it's not possible for you to to make the update on your phone. Maybe you have to write it down on a piece of paper. Now now I don't want you to use that as an excuse. I'm not saying when you prefer to do it that way, but you have to.

Kenneth Vogt: 21:29

You're not allowed to take a phone into this meeting or into this facility, for instance. Well, you know, your only choice is to write write paper notes, but then you have to have it right in in your daily system. Like, when I get back to my computer, when I get back to my phone, I update it right away right now. You gotta make it a priority. You gotta you gotta commit to a system.

Kenneth Vogt: 21:54

Now another thing to say about this is when you choose a system, you don't know for sure it's the best one. You don't know for sure it's the right one. It may not actually be a good system for you. You're gonna have to test things out. You're gonna have to try things, but give it a fair try.

Kenneth Vogt: 22:12

Give give it a shot. I mean, don't go crazy on this in that, well, I'll have to commit to it for a year before another. No. Try something out for a week, And after a week, if you're not willing to keep trying, find another system. If you're trying a system and it's not working for you, don't get lazy and go, oh, I don't wanna look for another one.

Kenneth Vogt: 22:33

It was too much vassal finding this one. Finding the right one will be so worth it. You wanna you wanna give it your best shot. Another thing about a system that might matter to you, does it need to be secure? Do you have do you have proprietary information, or is there some legal requirement that your information be secure?

Kenneth Vogt: 22:54

You know, look for those features because not every system necessarily has that. Some the more and more of securities become a big issue just from a software standpoint, but it isn't it isn't guaranteed. So just make sure that that's that feature is there for you if that's one you need, and then make good use of it. And it's a using any security. If you're if you're using, you know, your first born's date of birth as your your password, I promise you that at some point, that's gonna come back to bite you.

Kenneth Vogt: 23:26

You you you've gotta you gotta take security seriously if that if you really wanna be secure. So this is an interesting one. The idea should should this system be fixed or flexible? Does it make me put time oriented stuff in this section? Does it make me put things without a deadline in that section?

Kenneth Vogt: 23:50

Does it make me separate my work from my my work tasks from my personal tasks? Does it does it force or enforce that kind of structure? And this really comes down to yourself. Are you somebody that needs that structure enforced? Well, then maybe it's not a bad idea.

Kenneth Vogt: 24:09

And I think one one good way to to decide whether or not you need it is how much you're resisting it. If you don't want it because you just don't wanna be told what to do, you don't wanna be made to jump through that hoop, that's not a very good reason. If you have a very good reason why I I don't need this kind of restriction, It doesn't matter to my employer whether or not I schedule a dentist appointment in the middle of the day. That's that's allowed in our contract. Fine.

Kenneth Vogt: 24:40

Then it's fine. But in some cases, you know, your boss could get real real sticky about picking up your kid from school at 4:30 when the workday ends at 5, you know, and that's in your calendar. And, you know, it's where perhaps it could be seen by somebody, including your boss. So, you know, you you gotta you gotta look at what do you need. Now sometimes flexibility is is a real boon, though.

Kenneth Vogt: 25:10

If you have to do things a certain way every single time, it doesn't always apply. So having a little flexibility built into a system can be useful. And again, you should be looking for this. When I'm this this whole list here of how you're picking a tool, this is the stuff you really should figure out before you even go look. Figure out the answers to these questions for you, and then you can go about looking for your system.

Kenneth Vogt: 25:36

So does this system require mobility? That is, you know, can it just work on your computer, or does it need to have an app? And is the is the app on your phone up to speed? Because I think we've all seen plenty of systems in the world like this where the computer the computerized system is great, and the phone, it's so so. I mean, even big companies have problems with this.

Kenneth Vogt: 26:01

There's stuff you can't do on your Netflix account on your on the phone app that you have to go to a computer for. They could make an argument that that there's a very good reason for that. I'm sure somebody there would. I think they're wrong. But, you know, you have to look at that when you're looking at to do systems, find the one that works for you and you and has what you need.

Kenneth Vogt: 26:27

Mobility is really important if you travel around a lot. Having a having your phone right there where you can update things, put things in, capture things right now when you're at in the field or wherever you are, can be can be a game changer for a to do system that will continue to work for you. Okay. I wanted to I wanted to talk a little bit too about to do list versus project management. Because as you start looking for a to do list that will work for you, you're gonna start you're gonna see at the beginning some things that are that are quite simple.

Kenneth Vogt: 27:05

There's there are some great simple systems out there. There's one built into Windows. There's one built into Apple iOS, you know, and they're they're pretty nice. You know, they they get a lot done. I use them, you know, but they don't have all the features that might be had.

Kenneth Vogt: 27:26

And the more and more features you add to these to do list systems, the more and more they start looking like a project management system. And you've probably seen some of the big ones out there. There's there's Zoho and HubSpot, Basecamp and Asana, and many others. And I'm not here to advocate for or against any of these, and I've used many of them quite happily. And and I'm and I'm real a big fan of certain systems.

Kenneth Vogt: 27:57

You'll notice I'm not advocating for any system because these are systems that work for me, doing what I do, doing it with the mentality that I have, but you're doing different things than I'm doing. You have your own mentality, and so I don't wanna I don't wanna push you in a direction to something that may not work for you. You know, again, if we go back to that last slide of the things you should be looking for, they're the things that you should be looking for. You are the one that will need to decide. Now when it comes to these, these, through lists versus project management systems, one of the things that might really matter to you is, do you need to capture dependencies between tasks?

Kenneth Vogt: 28:43

You may find that just the nature of the work that you do that a simple to do list is not gonna cut it. You're gonna have to have a project management system for for reasons like this one. Another thing to look at is do you need to to manage or monitor the activity of multiple people? Multiple people involved in projects that you must oversee and either to do's on those those lists that you're gonna assign to other people, and you got so it's not just about assignment to your to, you know, your the all the things you personally wanna get done, but there are things you wanna make sure get done, and you may not be the one doing that, and you have to have a way to do that. And the problem is is you can have it on your to do list is tell Bob to do x, and you do that, but there's no follow-up built into that.

Kenneth Vogt: 29:37

You gotta make sure if you assign x to Bob, you gotta check-in with Bob at some point and make sure that Bob got x done. In fact, that Bob understood what x was. Bob had everything. Bob needed to do x. There's a there may be other factors there, and, again, that might drive you from a simple system to a more robust system.

Kenneth Vogt: 30:02

Do you need to merge tasks and calendars? So think about this, we all have to do items that it's just something I gotta I've gotta get done. But then we have to do items that I have to get done at a certain time. The staff meeting is at 11 AM. I have to be there at that time.

Kenneth Vogt: 30:21

I my my task list can't just assume that I could have a a staff meeting anytime I feel like. This that might be something that has to be coordinated. So you may need a system that will also coordinate between tasks and calendar items, and you don't wanna get in the habit of putting things on your calendar that don't actually have a time or date deadline. But you do wanna keep track of those deadlines. So you gotta find a system then that has the right answer to that, that will it make sure I do it at the right time, or will it make sure I get it done before before the deadline?

Kenneth Vogt: 31:05

Those are 2 different problems. If you start stuffing your calendar with things, at 9:30 AM, I'm gonna do this, and at 9:45, I'm gonna do that, and at 10:15, I'm gonna do that, you're gonna wig yourself up. I don't care how detail oriented you are. There are some things that should not be calendared even though they have hard deadlines. So, you've you've got to keep track of that.

Kenneth Vogt: 31:29

There's there's another factor about tasks that when it comes to time that matters too. If I have to have something done by Friday, fine. I could do it any day up until Friday, unless it's gonna take me 3 days to do the task. Well, then I can't wait till Friday to start it or I won't get it done in time. So you gotta you've gotta look at that and make sure you you're using a system properly.

Kenneth Vogt: 31:56

If something really needs to be broke down into multiple tasks, you gotta have a way of capturing that, and it's gotta be part of your system. So at this point, I've given you a bit to think about, and probably the most important part of what we talked about was the was that last slide, and I'll go back to it now. There we go. Is is the examination you do of yourself for what's the right tool for you. 1st, figure it out what it is you're gonna be looking for, and then go out in the world and look for it.

Kenneth Vogt: 32:38

It. And there's nothing wrong with asking for input from other people. If you know somebody who's very, very successful in in their career and in their job and they get a lot done, ask them what they do. You know, get advice from people you trust. I mean, I hope that you trust me.

Kenneth Vogt: 32:57

I hope you've heard enough good good stuff from me and you'll listen to me, but then again, there are other people who are doing precisely what you do. They will be a mentor to you or can be a mentor to you, and they've walked the road. And they know what works, and they know it didn't work for them. And if especially if their personal style matches yours, so that can be very helpful. I mean, you wanna model people that are that are getting the results you wanna get, but you need to remember too that you have to have a similar mindset to them to use their model.

Kenneth Vogt: 33:30

And not every model is a good model for for everyone. You might wanna be a singer, but do you wanna be a singer like a rock singer? You wanna be like a country singer? You wanna be like a pop singer? It matters who you listen to.

Kenneth Vogt: 33:43

Right? What what would be a good model for you to follow? So it's it's worth digging into that. So if you will go away now, figure out this list of what kind of tool you need for yourself, and then go out and do an examination in the world and find some possibilities and find more than one. You don't you don't have to implement more than 1, but, you know, give yourself some options.

Kenneth Vogt: 34:13

Then get in there and start using it. Not saying you gotta stick with it for the rest of your life, but give it an honest an honest test. Get in there and try it out and see what happens and learn some things. And if you need to shift to a second system, make the shift, and again, give it give it a chance. Really work it, really follow its protocols, and see what works best for you.

Kenneth Vogt: 34:42

So when all that is said and done, this will help you pick out a useful to do list that'll work for you. But there's a second episode. Why would we need we need a second episode? Because I've seen this happen too much in the real world. You go out and you do the legwork.

Kenneth Vogt: 35:02

You get it get it figured out what you should be looking for. You look for it. You find it. You implement it. You start doing it and stop.

Kenneth Vogt: 35:14

Or worse yet, crash and burn. But, woah, what happened? Is it the system? Did I not do my electric properly? And you look back and, like, well, the system does meet the protocol I was looking for.

Kenneth Vogt: 35:26

And you know what? I really did examine the protocol in advance. I I I did everything Ken said to do. Why isn't this working for me? Well, there can be a lot of reasons why.

Kenneth Vogt: 35:37

And it gets it make it down more to emotional reasons, and it make it down to more practical implementation problems. And that's what we're gonna talk about in the next episode. So I will ask, if anybody has any questions, feel free to put them into the into the question box, and and we'll look into that, see what else we can answer for anybody as I pause pregnantly. So one of the things you may find is what if you've really got a an attachment to a PaaS system, but you know it's not working for you and you're hesitating to to do the examination, you know, because it may be painful to find out what what's what's not working for you and why. And all I could say to you is just take one step at a time.

Kenneth Vogt: 36:42

Take that first step in. Just start examining it. You as scientists, examination is your thing. It's what you do. Yep.

Kenneth Vogt: 36:51

It it's the same kind of scientific approach. If you find something's not working for you, alright, then test out something new. Develop a new hypothesis, test your hypothesis, and see what happens. And you're gonna get results, and you're gonna figure out from those results what's next best. You may not come up with a perfect answer the first time out, but if if you approach this in a scientific way and you're already familiar with that method, it'll work for you.

Kenneth Vogt: 37:21

If you have to deal with with deeper emotional issues about that, we'll talk about that on our our next episode. But, so that is the idea. So I wanna wrap up with hang on here. Well, I wanna wrap up with 1st off thanking everybody for for being present for for our webinar today. And, you know, of course, whether you're listening to it live or you're hearing it on demand, thank you.

Kenneth Vogt: 37:52

Thank you. Now if you enjoy this kind of content, please subscribe to The Happy Scientist on your favorite podcast platform or or on YouTube. Listen back to our earlier episodes and especially the first nine. The first nine are core principles that we reference over and over again. Today, we talked about mind core mindsets.

Kenneth Vogt: 38:13

Again, that's 3 of those those those first nine episodes. They are packed with quality, useful information, useful wisdom. And, of course, tell your colleague, your colleagues so they can help spread the happy scientist and so we can help spread the the notion of happy scientists. Also, be on the lookout for more live happy scientist episodes in the coming months. You can find them listed on events.bitesizebio.com and on the Happy Scientist Facebook page at facebook.com/thehappyscientistpodcast.

Kenneth Vogt: 38:52

So until next time, good luck in your research, and goodbye from us at Bite Size Bio.

VX: 39:05

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