Patience and Getting What You Want. Are They Compatible?
This is the Happy Scientist Podcast. Each episode is designed to make you more focused, more productive, and more satisfied in the lab. You can find us online at bitesizebio.com/happyscientist. Your hosts are Kenneth Vogt, founder of the executive coaching firm, Vera Claritas, and doctor Nick Oswald, PhD, bioscientist, and founder of Bite Size Bio.
Nick Oswald:Hello. This is Nick Oswald welcoming you to this Bite Size Bio webinar, which today is a live episode of the Happy Scientist podcast. If you want to become a happier, healthier, and more productive scientist, you are in the right place. With me, as always, is the Bite Size Bio Team's mister Miyagi, whose name is mister Kenneth Vogt. In this these sessions, we hear from Ken mostly on principles that will help shape you for a happier and a more successful career.
Nick Oswald:And along the way, I'll pitch in with points from my personal experience as a scientist and from working with Ken myself. If you've got any questions, put them into the questions box on the right hand side of the your screen at any time, and I will put them to Ken. Today, we will be discussing discussing patients and getting what you want. Are they compatible? Okay.
Nick Oswald:That sounds a bit cryptic, Ken. What's going on there?
Kenneth Vogt:Well, I I was thinking when I came up with this particular topic, I I like to take a contrarian view because, you know, patience seems like it should be a good thing, but could it actually hold you back? And, you know, of course, the whole point of the of this podcast is is to help you accelerate your career and help you help you get places and to help you to succeed. And yet we're talking about patience. So the first thing that comes to mind is isn't patience supposed to be a virtue? I mean, how could this be bad for you?
Kenneth Vogt:Because the the fact is you may find it desirable to be patient, and you may feel like you need it. There may be times when when you feel like a lack of patience is causing you problems. But the there's there's always this well, not opportunity, but this possibility that whenever you do something that you will overcorrect, and then you take it too far. And that is that definitely happens for some folks when it comes to patients. They start just waiting for things to happen.
Kenneth Vogt:They they put things off. They don't stand up. They don't make any noise. It's like, you know what? I'm just gonna let this settle.
Kenneth Vogt:I'm gonna let this work itself out. And and then they become passive. And in that passivity, things stop happening in some cases. So, you know, that's that that's the beginning point of this. So I I will I will put the question to you, Nick.
Kenneth Vogt:Do you ever have you ever found patience to get in your way before?
Nick Oswald:Well, I think yeah. I don't know. I I I've found passivity to get in the way before and using patience as an excuse. I guess that's what you're saying.
Kenneth Vogt:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And and so so the the question is, how do we hang on to the to the valuable part of patients but not use it as a crutch or not not not pretend that we're being patient when actually all we're doing is being passive. So so the the flip side of this is that people don't like impatient people.
Kenneth Vogt:And we we sometimes we're being patient not because we wanna be patient, but because we don't wanna be perceived as being impatient. Because, I mean, that can that can go from being viewed as being annoying to being viewed as unbearable. And that's not good for your career. It's not gonna be good for you if if impatience is the label that gets attached to you. So how do we how do we balance this out?
Kenneth Vogt:How do we how do we make sure that we're using patience when it makes sense, but we're not using patience as a crutch when it doesn't make sense? So one thing I would like to say about patience is patience is a force, and I I use that particular word on purpose. And then we've probably talked about this before, the difference between a power and a force. And, you know, just in terms of physics, you know, forces are something is something that is always limited and always opposed. So if you think of patience as something that is a force, then you realize there's always some kind of restriction.
Kenneth Vogt:There's always some kind of opposition there. Now the opposition is coming from you. If you're being patient, you're the one who is that opposing force because people on the receiving end of patients, they're not gonna complain. Great. You're letting me do whatever I want.
Kenneth Vogt:Awesome. You know? So I'm not gonna resist that, but you're gonna resist that. And you may not even realize you're resisting it. You may not realize how it's costing you because it takes energy to be patient.
Kenneth Vogt:And sometimes that is not a good investment of energy. Sometimes you need to you need to go, no. Not now. Not this way. Not this time.
Kenneth Vogt:You gotta stand up and recognize that that patience is just being weak. And and that weakness is you know what I mean? It's weakening you. So you're expending energy, that's weakening you. You're losing face, that's weakening you.
Kenneth Vogt:You know, there there's a lot of ways here that this can can start to to pile up against you. Now that's not to say that that we should stop being patient, and I'm gonna make the case for patients here in a little bit. But but I really wanna call this out as, are you being mindful about your patience? Are you choosing? And are you choosing wisely when to be patient?
Kenneth Vogt:I mean, there are times when when we just let somebody have their way because they're just difficult to deal with and and they're just a constant problem. So we just we we we offer that that particular individual patients when all things being equal wouldn't normally. We might not be willing to put up with that from somebody else. But because there's such a ball in the China shop, we we just like, that's just not worth the fight. And so so we give up on it.
Kenneth Vogt:So all we have to do is be more aware of that stuff. And if we're if we're dealing with somebody like that, and it could be our boss, we we wanna be looking for what are the opportunities to stand up Where I'm no longer just gonna take the body blows, but I'm gonna I'm gonna put my foot down and say, look, this is this is a time when I have to when I have to take a stand, when I where I'm not gonna just let this happen. And, you know, you may find there are little things that are happening, you know, where everybody's I mean, I don't wanna say everybody, but say many people are doing certain things that are are annoying you and are costing you time and are are, impacting your access to resources or or tools, and and you just never say anything. That's not being patient. That's being walked on.
Kenneth Vogt:If you could make it clear to people, like, hey, we have to leave this equipment set up for the next person to run. I'm tired of showing up at this piece of equipment, and I gotta reset it up every time because you guys left it a mess. And, you know, and maybe it's one person, maybe it's multiple people, but those patterns get set up sometimes in your operation. And somebody sees somebody else doesn't doesn't do it. So they're like, why should I do it?
Kenneth Vogt:And then then it becomes this pattern where nobody does until somebody stops being patient about that, puts their hand up and says, okay, no more. We can't do this anymore. We have to we have to complete our tasks and clean up the mess afterwards so that the next person won't be hindered in in what they're doing. And we've all had those situations where you're on a schedule, you gotta get things done, and then you realize I have to do this preliminary work that I wasn't planning on because somebody else left a mess for me. When I say a mess, I mean, that could be literally physically a mess, but just, you know, left things in a disordered way that that don't allow you to just smoothly move forward.
Kenneth Vogt:You know, if if there's a place for everything and everything is in its place, you can operate cleanly and carefully. And, you know, in in the lab, I mean, there's so many times when literal cleanliness matters, when literal, you know, antiseptic nature has to be there that we don't often deal with outside of the lab. I mean, maybe you would do a little bit in your kitchen. Obviously, your kitchen, you wanna keep it clean. You don't wanna don't wanna give the family food poisoning, but but, I mean, you're dealing with tolerances that are that are are much tighter.
Kenneth Vogt:So I I wanna talk about that idea of tolerance, because that when it comes to patience, the best you can hope for as a result of patience is tolerance and forbearance. That's that's when you're being patient, remember, as a force, it's coming at a cost to you. And so you can exhibit tolerance. You can exhibit forbearance. Now tolerance is a is a useful concept in science.
Kenneth Vogt:You know, there there are plenty of things that you're doing where the literal tolerances of measurements matter. And and, you know, you have to be accurate within a certain degree. So you have a you have a metaphor there for tolerance, but, and you can see its usefulness. But you need to recognize that tolerance and acceptance are not the same thing. So, you know, you you may accept a plus or minus of, you know, 2% for something because that's acceptable.
Kenneth Vogt:It works. Right? When it comes to being a a numbers type thing. But when we're talking about the human relations part of this, there are some things that we just cannot accept. It's it's there is no, you know, plus or minus 2% of annoyance.
Kenneth Vogt:Right? They can I will allow them to be this measurable amount of annoying and no more? You know? It it it doesn't work like that because it's because it's more subjective. So so we need to be mindful about what will I tolerate and what won't I tolerate.
Kenneth Vogt:You know, how much interruption will I accept in a meeting? How much how much going, you know, off script will I allow in the lab? There there's there's a there's a there's a limit there, and and you have to decide where it is. You have to choose it because it's not gonna be so easy as to say, well, the alarm will go off when it hits 5, whatever that means. Right?
Kenneth Vogt:It isn't like that. You have to decide in any given moment when is it really important that I don't accept things going awry. I have to keep things tight. And then there are other settings where it's not it's not as critical. And part of that may happen to an in an environment where you don't have full control.
Kenneth Vogt:You know, if it's not your meeting, if it's not your project, you'd you know, if you're if you're on the team rather than leading the team, there may be different, different standard that you will choose to use. But, there are times when, you know, being a team member becomes oppressive to us because it's just so out of out of harmony with what we feel is is the most workable. Or, you know, maybe it's just just a project you're just not that not that into. It's just not I mean, it's it's just work. It's just it's just grunt labor to you, and you don't care that much.
Kenneth Vogt:But there are other times when when you really deeply care and it really matters to you that you wanna be part of something and and you want it to function well. Or sometimes, we wanna be part of something to make sure it doesn't go wrong. You know, we wanna be there to be the eyes and ears for the, you know, for whatever stand you're taking on that. And those are those are times when being patient is not really helping your cause. You know, when you sign up to be part of something so that you can kinda be its watchdog, being patient isn't so much what you wanna do.
Kenneth Vogt:It's it's it's less less valuable in that setting. Now there are other times when, yeah, you could be patient as long you know, as patient as the day is long as the saying goes. It's fine. But it comes down to choosing, I mean, any given moment, when am I willing to be tolerant of things, When am I willing to let things go? And when am I not?
Kenneth Vogt:And when when it feels wrong, you know, when I say wrong, I don't necessarily mean morally wrong, but it feels out of out of harmony with the objective that that you would like to see happen there, you need to stand up. And that's not the that is not the moment to be patient. So I will let you get an award edgewise here before we go and talk to the virtues and patients.
Nick Oswald:I was just thinking that I was gonna tell everybody that this is the bit where you go about Yoda sometimes. And and it's really good, but you have to really, like, drill down and decipher it sometime sometimes. And, actually, again, just to go back to that, if you've never done it, the the first few episodes of this podcast help with some of the frameworks that you were using there. But to try and tease this apart a little bit, the way that I take what you're saying there is that patience versus, you know, impatience, if you wanna look at it that way, it's not digital. Right?
Nick Oswald:It's it's it's analog.
Kenneth Vogt:Right.
Nick Oswald:And and you don't want to be at one end or the other. And you you want to find you don't wanna be overly patient. You don't want to be overly impatient, but you need to find the, the happy medium, and that depends on what the situation is. And, was that would you agree with that? Yeah.
Kenneth Vogt:I would.
Nick Oswald:Is that a good translation?
Kenneth Vogt:We're about to get into is to really define patients and what's what's good about it. And this is what's gonna help us choose when when it's called for. So Cool. The the Next slide.
Nick Oswald:Okay. The other way that I was looking at this before you don't jump into that, though, is that Mhmm. The patience versus impatience is not the only continuum. It depends on what you put. It could be patience versus assertiveness.
Nick Oswald:So in a situation where someone's behaving badly to you, you can be patient or you can be assertive. You could be too patient or too assertive, but then what the best thing to do is to find where you are on the on the, where where is best on the continuum that gives you, you know, that gets you what you want. You know? You you maybe have to step forward to to a level, and some people will have a tendency to go too far towards assertiveness or impatience or aggression or anger or pushiness. Some people will have to will tend to go too far towards the patients.
Nick Oswald:Patient patient side of things and, believing that they're just I I tend to do that actually, move towards the path aside believing that I I that will, create the space, you know, that let people get on with it, and then it'll, it'll resolve. But it doesn't always work like that. You have there's a happy medium, and so you have to be aware of where you are on whatever continuum is, patience and patience, patience, aggression.
Kenneth Vogt:Yes. And it's a moving target too. Yep. You know, it's because what applies in one setting may not apply in the next setting.
Nick Oswald:Exactly. Yep.
Kenneth Vogt:So, you know, we have to be aware situationally aware. So I wanna talk about the benefits of patience here first because sometimes this will help you decide whether it's worth it. Because the patience comes at a cost, but this is this is what you get for it. This is the value. So we'll start with that.
Kenneth Vogt:The first point is being patient can reduce your stress. It can help people to slow down, stay calm in a stressful situation. And and, you know, I think it's well documented by this point that stress is a killer. And stress is a career killer too. It's not not just it hurts your health, it hurts it hurts your prospects for the future.
Kenneth Vogt:It and you bring it home and, you know, there's all kinds of things about this. Sometimes, just realizing I need to just accept what is happening here and just not make a thing out of it can reduce a lot of stress. Now that second point that I did kind of alluded to, it's it improves your mental health. And I'm not just talking about when when people are really close to a breakdown, but, I mean, you wanna be mentally healthy just like you wanna be physically healthy. If you're running a low grade fever all the time or you've got a cough that just won't go away, you know, it's annoying.
Kenneth Vogt:It gets in your way, you know. The same thing happens with mental health. If you can be more at peace, feel more relaxed, you you'll be more emotionally resilient, and it won't. Things just won't hurt as much. They won't they won't cause as many problems.
Kenneth Vogt:Patients will help you make better decisions because in if you're patient, it gives you time to actually gather the facts and then time to actually make rational decisions. Because if we only make decisions based on emotions, we're gonna make mistakes. There's there's no getting around it. And I realized we're talking to a pretty rational crowd here, the you you you scientists, but I also know how human you are. So we all have that some some of the emotional part of it coming in.
Kenneth Vogt:So, you know, we we wanna be aware of that and see the application because we care about making good decisions. I mean, it really does matter. Another thing that happens when you're patient is it improves relationships. People get along with you better. They like working with you better.
Kenneth Vogt:You're somebody that's not constantly nitpicking and needling. Other people will just enjoy working with you and will want you on their team. It that's and that's gratifying for you too. And again, it's it's a career building thing to build relationships because other people are going places. You can go with them, and you can take people with you too that are are supportive of the things that you wanna get done.
Kenneth Vogt:So building relationships, is definitely aided by being patient. You're also helped in achieving goals, but, because patience can help you overcome obstacles and can help you build confidence. And, you know, that certainly, is something necessary for career success and for career satisfaction. So if you like achieving goals, patience is a good tool. Increased depreciation is an interesting one because I I think that often gets overlooked.
Kenneth Vogt:The longer it takes to get something, the the greater you appreciate it when when you finally achieve it. So it's like, you know, time makes the heart grow fonder as it were. So if you have to put in some effort and you gotta you gotta lay back and let some things play out to get what you want, when you get it, it feels better, and it locks things in. So, you know, don't forget to be appreciative, as as things are going along. Then finally, I'll talk about strategic thinking.
Kenneth Vogt:Patience can give you time to analyze the situation. It can see, because that's the thing. You can be patient even though you're not happy about what's happening just so you could take a breather, so you can step back and assess. And and it may allow you to see some possible solutions that that might not have been directly obvious because because you've had time to ponder things. Now it's just like the decision making part, but, you know, strategic thinking is bigger picture.
Kenneth Vogt:So these are these are some of the things you get out of patience. So if I started off making it sound like I was saying, oh, don't be patient. No. I'm not saying don't be patient. I'm saying be mindful about your patience.
Kenneth Vogt:And when it's when it's called for, I mean, look at all this good stuff. You want this. Right?
Nick Oswald:Choose how patient you want to be.
Kenneth Vogt:Yeah. Exactly. So let's look at the other side of that, the downside to patients. Like, how can that be? Well, I happen to find a study that was, that was authored by, Paulo Giuliano, and another Paulo, Paulo Sapienza.
Kenneth Vogt:Giuliano is is from UCLA. Sapienta is from Northwestern. I'm these are good schools. Right? And they they started with a a 2012 Gallup World Poll that was asking about this, about patients, and they found out something interesting.
Kenneth Vogt:The survey found that, a moderate amount of patients will maximize life satisfaction and emotional well-being. But beyond that moderate level, higher levels of patients have a negative impact on well-being. And I'll have a I'll have a note to the to the study in in in the show notes. But it this this is really making the point that I wanted to make here that patience isn't the all purpose tool. You can't use it for everything.
Kenneth Vogt:Sometimes, you need to not be patient. Because if you have an excessive delay in gratification, and, you know, we know that delaying gratification is a is a a good thing. You know, it's it's a maturation. People don't delay gratification. They can get involved in all kinds of terrible things.
Kenneth Vogt:But there is a point where delaying your gratification, just keeping delaying it, it stops being beneficial. We need to win sometimes. Competition in the workplace, I mean, it sometimes requires us to be more proactive. That's that is the point here. And then this is true in a lab as well as any other kind of social setting, but, it's still it's still a business as it were.
Kenneth Vogt:There are objectives to be met, and people have to work together. And sometimes in working together, there's competition, and competition is useful. So if we're if we're always avoiding competition, we're we're costing ourselves. That is that is a setting where if we've just painted competition, it's automatically bad all the time, and I never wanna compete, and I just don't wanna I just wanna get along with everybody. That's not how how the world works, and it's not how your lab works.
Kenneth Vogt:And you've got I'm sure in in most labs, you've got some people with strong opinions and which is good, you know, But you need you need to be one of them. You need you need to you need to pick your battles too, and and you need to win some. It it's not it's not always so that you need to lay down and just let things happen. And the other thing too is that just out of self respect, you wanna be intellectually honest. If you see things going in a way where intellectual honesty has taken a hit, you gotta stand up, say, no.
Kenneth Vogt:We're not we're not gonna pretend that, you know, that the data says otherwise. If it says what it says, it says what it says. And, you know, be sure and take a stand for those things, and don't just be patient. Well, you know, they'll catch up eventually. They'll start to understand.
Kenneth Vogt:No. Help them understand. Get in there. Be a teacher. Be a mentor.
Kenneth Vogt:Be a shepherd. Get them to get them to the place they need to go. That's that is the is when patience is no longer a virtue. So finally, you get you gotta pick your moments now. It's like, how do I know?
Kenneth Vogt:How do I know when to be patient and when do I need to when do I need to take a stand? You know? Sometimes it just comes down to I've I've got I've, earned some chips. I have I've got some I've I've got some political cloud. I've got I've got the opportunity now to cash in those chips, And sometimes you just do that.
Kenneth Vogt:Anyhow, the the only choice there is, like, well, is this the moment? Do I wanna expend my political capital right now? When I say political, I don't mean this in a negative way at all. It's just, you know, it's about when you decide to take a stand for a certain policy and do that. And if you if you bother to amass some authority in an area, don't just waste that.
Kenneth Vogt:Use it use it when it makes sense. Now there are gonna be times too when maybe it's I you may don't have the political capital, but you can see something is about to go disastrously wrong. I need to put my hand up and say, woah. We have to stop here. And and, obviously, that comes at a risk sometimes.
Kenneth Vogt:Yep. Nobody likes to be the person who's always saying no. But sometimes, if other people aren't saying no and no needs to be said, you gotta be the one. That is not a moment to be patient. So like, oh, well, I guess we'll just see what happens.
Kenneth Vogt:Sometimes you gotta stand up. Another thing that may happen is is somebody's reputation on the line. Now it could be your reputation, but it could also be someone else's. Or it could be your group's reputation, your lab's reputation, your field's rep, you know, reputation. In moments like that, that is that is a time for you to no longer just be patient.
Kenneth Vogt:You just don't let it wash over you and let and let reputation be ruined because it's it's really easy for reputation to be lost, and it's really hard to get it back. So, you know, we you gotta be proactive about that. And then finally, if there's a setting where the mission is at risk and, you know, whatever it is you're working on, you know what's gotta be accomplished. So, I mean, are you putting your grant at risk, Or or is not are you putting it? Is is the grant being put at risk?
Kenneth Vogt:Do you need to speak up and point that out? And I you know, that's just one potential mission. Obviously, we need to stay funded, but but, 2, you may really care about the things that you bothered to get grants for. So, if you feel things are going the wrong way, get your ducks in a row, and then then stand up for that. Don't patiently wait for everybody else to solve the problem because it we think that's being patient.
Kenneth Vogt:Yep. I'm being patient waiting for somebody else to speak up. I'm being patient waiting for for the boss to take a stand. Like, you know, be your own person. Don't be afraid to take a take a position.
Kenneth Vogt:And obviously, you need to pick the things that matter. Don't don't take weak positions on on, inconsequential things. Take strong positions on things that matter. And when you do that, you will find then when when you're patient, people have more respect for that. Because when if they realize, you know, you you're the kind of person that would stand up if standing up was needed, Then then people start to trust you.
Kenneth Vogt:They they start to realize that you have leadership qualities and you're you're somebody they can follow. And even if it's just to follow you as a peer, that is that they can join you in your in your positions or your or when you don't take a position, That's that is, again, a a a very good way to use patients properly and to and to avoid misusing it. So once again, I'll let you, get a word in there, Nick.
Nick Oswald:Sure. I mean, I guess that one way to look at this is in any given situation is look at where where is your natural tendency to go. Do you tend to be too impatient, or do you tend to be too or do you tend towards the impatient side of things, or do you tend tend towards the patient side of things? And then if you're if you're like me and you tend tend towards the patient side of things and you're not saying something that you feel or not doing something that you feel needs to be done, the question to ask yourself is, are you being patient or are you being fearful, or are you advocating, or are you hoping that someone else will do what you want to do? And in which case then, step forward towards the impatience or the assertiveness or whatever is at the other end of that spectrum for you.
Nick Oswald:If you if you tend towards impatience and, then, and you feel yourself going too far towards it, you know, and all the downsides that happen at that end, then move back towards patients. But wherever you tend to go, the the I think Ken's overall message is that, that there's downsides at each end of the spectrum. And so you Imbalance is always You don't want to be
Kenneth Vogt:risky thing. Yeah.
Nick Oswald:You don't want to be either end of those. You want to be somewhere in the middle, and and that's where the mindfulness comes in is choosing that and be and asking yourself the question is why am I standing at this point? Is it because I'm scared? Is I mean, the the the sort of the impatient side of the the equation could be fear as well as the impatient. You could be scared to say something and be patient, you know, disguise it as patience.
Nick Oswald:You could be afraid of something not happening, and so that becomes an in impatience. You know? So that that's where then fear maps onto that or all sorts of other emotions and things, but that's taking that off in a different dynamic.
Kenneth Vogt:Yeah. And and you can look at people that you know and love and respect. Some of them are very patient. Some of them are very impatient, and yet you still respect them. Why?
Kenneth Vogt:Because the people that are properly impatient, they don't suffer fools. They're they know their space. They get it. Yeah. And maybe the people that are really patient, you know, like, my grandmother was really patient.
Kenneth Vogt:She was not a highly educated woman, but gosh, she was a lovely woman. You know? And, you know, I will always remember that about her, but I've also worked with people that were brilliantly intelligent and were rarely patient, and I love that about them because they had such a such a steel trap mind, you know, that that you could follow them. You could trust they would be looking in the right direction, and and you wanted to be a part of what they were doing.
Nick Oswald:Yep. So
Kenneth Vogt:and you you may find too that with with yourself, maybe you do have a tendency to one side of that spectrum or the other, But maybe you find that it's only in certain areas. You know, like, I'm very patient with my kids, but I'm not so patient with my with, you know, my lab assistants. You know, what's the difference? What's you you gotta look at it and go, well, does it is it make sense or not? Is it fair?
Kenneth Vogt:Is it is it appropriate? And it may well be. You know what I mean? You're dealing with a 6 year old. It's a lot different than dealing with a, you know, a 21 year old post grad.
Kenneth Vogt:Right? But then again, to if you're if you're accustomed to coddling small children, do you then port that to coddling your, you know, your your college age staff, you know. Well, no. You don't wanna do that. You know, you get you gotta do what's appropriate.
Kenneth Vogt:But and, also, you don't wanna bring it home. Like, look. I'm hard on these people. They're smart, and they've already been through years of education. I don't wanna take that to my 3rd grader, you know, because that's not appropriate.
Kenneth Vogt:But, in the lab, obviously, you've got stuff you wanna get done, and there are times when being patient will help you get it done. But there are times when not being patient is what's gonna help you get it done. When you say, oh, no. We're not gonna drag this out. You're gonna get this done.
Kenneth Vogt:You're gonna make this work, you know, and and you take a stand for that, and it's appropriate.
Nick Oswald:Yep. That's one of the patience is one of the kind of, again, I refer to the the you know, go back and look at the the foundational 5, 6, first episodes of this podcast. Ken talks about all sorts of different frameworks.
Kenneth Vogt:9. 9? Okay.
Nick Oswald:Okay. I think I say a different number every time, but okay. There's 9 of them. And but they're very good. If this is useful to you, go back and just listen to those again.
Kenneth Vogt:Yeah. So the the first three are on human needs. Mhmm. The second three are on core mindset.
Nick Oswald:Yep.
Kenneth Vogt:And the final three are on charisma factors. So just to to clue you in on what that's about. And and they they really are useful, and we do reference them a lot, you know, the the concepts a lot. So it it it keeps applying.
Nick Oswald:Yeah. And so this is this is an expansion on one of those, you know, one of the the elements of that, which is is patients, obviously, and when to wield it and when to not. So I think that was quite useful. It's, it's takes a little bit to unpack, but and and, actually, it looks quite obvious once you explain it. But unless it's explained, then you don't really Yeah.
Nick Oswald:You you don't tend to take it into account. But, hopefully, in whatever situation you guys are all, working in or experiencing at the moment. You can see moments where you could see areas where you can where patients would more patients would be a benefit, but also areas where patients would be is letting you down, and you maybe need to turn on the gas a little bit.
Kenneth Vogt:Yeah. Exactly. Okay? Alright. Well, that's that's what I had to say today.
Kenneth Vogt:Okay. Thank you, Nick, for all your feedback in it.
Nick Oswald:Good. And thanks for, for to the audience for listening in and, and Ken for, as usual, some, some, great insight. So as I've mentioned, if you've enjoyed this content, please go back. And if you've not done so already and listen to those first nine episodes that are packed with equally, if not more useful wisdom because these are really the foundations, those first nine. And, of course, please tell your colleagues about this so that we can spread the word about the happy scientist and make more happy scientists.
Nick Oswald:So, you can look out for us again, appearing again on, events dot bitesizebio.com where the that's the next one is scheduled in a couple of weeks. Until then, good luck in your research, and goodbye from all of us at Bite Size Bio.
Intro/Outro:The happy scientist is brought to you by Bite Size Bio, your mentor in the lab. Bite Size Bio features thousands of articles and webinars contributed by hundreds of PhD scientists and scientific companies who freely offer their hard won wisdom and solutions to the bite sized bio
Kenneth Vogt:community.
