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This is the Happy Scientist Podcast.

Each episode is designed to make you more focused,

more productive, and more satisfied in the lab.

You can find us online@bitesizebio.com

slash Happy scientist.

Your hosts are Kenneth Vo, founder

of the Executive coaching firm, Vera Claritas, and Dr.

Nick Oswald, PhD Bioscientist and Founder Bite-size bio.

Hello, this is not Nick Oswald welcoming you

to this bite-size bio webinar,

but Tom Warwick, content creator here at Bite-size bio.

Today, we have a live episode

of the Happy Scientist Podcast.

If you want to become a happier, healthier,

and more productive scientist, you're in the right place.

With me, as always is Bitesize Bio Teams, Mr. Magi, Mr.

Kenneth Vo. In these sessions,

we hear from Ken mostly on principles

that will help shape you for a happier

and more successful career along the way.

I'll pitch in with points from my personal

experience as a scientist.

If you have any questions for Ken,

please put 'em into the questions box at the side

of your screen, and I'll put them

to Ken at the end of the show.

Today, we'll be discussing urgency

and how to keep it from ruining your day,

your project and your career.

So over to you, Ken.

Alright. All right. Nice to be with you again, Tom.

Yeah, it was funny, I was thinking about, uh,

about you when it came, this topic came up

and I thought, you know,

this would be a good one to have time on.

And just so happened

that Nick was not available at the recording

time, and here you are. Yeah,

I'm, it's magically show. I'm like a genie.

So everything works out.

You know, it's, it's funny, we have a, uh,

a project management system that, that we use here.

Yeah. And it, it's great, you know, it,

it keeps things on track.

You know, there are a lot of moving parts.

There's a number of people involved,

but every once in a while, somebody namely me,

doesn't do a task on time.

So I think I actually told Tom the questions,

I wanna make sure we answer for this,

for this session on the weekend.

And it's, we're recording on a Monday.

So, so I created a little urgency perhaps

for Tom. So, I'm sorry

I'm fast. I'm fantastically

prepared. Got all my

Notes. Well, there we go.

So it, it, it all works out.

But, but that is what happens sometimes, you know,

it's just, it's, nobody's trying to do it.

It's not happening on purpose.

It was, nobody's creating drama. It's just things happen.

And of course, um,

things can happen that'll still ruin everything.

So we can't just look at it

and go, oh, well, you know, what can we do?

Well, we, we need to figure out what we can do,

because sometimes we just have to deal with it.

Now, there are times when you'll just suffer it,

like you suck it up, and you'll call that all nighter

or whatever it is you gotta do.

You'll push things that are also important to you.

But, you know, but sometimes it, it's the end of the world.

And, and so you gotta,

you gotta ask yourself, what am I gonna do?

So I go to my, my first slide here,

and the question is, what is urgency?

Kind of the first blush that seems, well,

that's an obvious question.

Maybe not. So I'll actually put that question to you, Tom.

What do you think urgency is?

I think a, a a task that

you are dependent on to get done, um,

that will have negative consequences for other people

who are reliant, um, upon

that task further down the road, I would say.

Got it.

Yeah. Yeah, I would, I would agree with, with

that take on it, I'm gonna,

I'm gonna put some definitions out there that may be helpful

for people to, to think about.

Urgency is the application of time to an objective

now, just, just that there's two factors.

There's something, some object that you wanna get done,

and then there's the impact of time on that objective.

So just that, just the cold, hard facts of

that can create urgency.

But what makes it really interesting for us humans

is when you add emotion,

because now it's like, this has to get done,

and then it's like, then it's more like, oh my God, this has

to get done, get done,

or it's gonna be end of the world if it doesn't get done.

Or somebody's gonna be really ticked off if it doesn't get

done, or somebody's gonna be really in, you know, have,

they're gonna have huge problems if this doesn't get done.

All that stuff. Our factors and urgency

and our, our, uh, call it our emotional reaction

to urgency really does matter.

And you might look at yourself, think, you know, I'm, I'm a,

you know, full of analysis.

I'm a clinician. I, i don't worry about that stuff.

Like, don't kid yourself. You do.

And even if you don't, other people do,

and they will absolutely pour their emergency on you.

And, you know, and you're still gonna have to deal with it.

You still have to face it.

So it's good to recognize when there's urgency present, um,

because it will start to, to impact the decisions you make.

And we've talked in the past, uh, um, you know,

on the podcast about urgency versus importance,

and, you know, they're not the same thing.

There are things that are important, but not urgent.

There are definitely things

that are urgent, but not important.

And we've all had somebody, you know,

just bust into our office like, oh my God, we gotta do this.

And of course, you, you leap to it

because, you know, this person is,

is showing emotion about it.

And, and then

after a while, sometimes we realize

as we're halfway into it, like, this is so unimportant.

Why are we bothering to be distracted by this? You know?

So that, that is a factor in dealing with urgency.

And I'm not so much gonna deal with the, of that matrix

of urgency versus importance today.

I wanna specifically key on urgency and what happens.

And, and it's a natural thing to have

in any work environment.

There's gonna be, there are gonna be times when things are

urgent and people have different opinions about

what's urgent and what isn't.

And, you know, we'll,

we're gonna deal with that in a little bit.

But just for right now, just to recognize what is urgent

and when it happens, if, if we go into a realm

where we never respond to urgency,

you're gonna find people don't like working with you.

That they, they care that when they think something has

to happen, now that you are paying attention to them, um,

you know, obviously people aren't always right.

And, and sometimes people have no authority over you.

So they, even if they are right, they can't force you.

But how well will you fit into the system?

Will you respond to urgency in appropriate way, uh,

for not just appropriate for you,

but appropriate for your team, appropriate for your lab,

for your, your company, your university,

or whatever it is, you know,

for whatever your objectives are.

And, you know, your objectives can define what is relevant

when it comes to urgency.

And you can decide from there, you know,

when you stub your toe, it's urgent, right?

It hurts. Is it urgent that you rearrange all the furniture?

So this never happens again, right now, probably not.

But then again, if it's been the,

the 10th time you stubbed your toe on that,

maybe it is about time you did what, what needs to be done,

you know, then that urgency is a flag to, to clue you in on,

on where you should go next.

So the first, the first task there is determining is this,

or is this not urgent?

Once you make that determination, okay,

what is the appropriate response to urgency?

So, um, again, I will, I will,

I will put you on the hot seat here,

Tom, and say, what do you think?

What is an appropriate response to urgency?

Well, you mentioned pouring emotion on, you know,

someone further down the line in

the, in the series of tasks.

That definitely isn't, um,

it definitely isn't an appropriate response.

I guess it depends on the task in hand

and how urgent you, you know, you view it is,

'cause one option is to stop what you're doing

and get it done right.

Um, but then you need to, you need to speak to, you know,

the people or persons who, who've made something urgent

and explain how that has impacted you

and your other stuff that they might not be aware of.

Um, sure. So case dependent, I guess,

but definitely not emotional.

Yeah. Well, it's definitely case dependent and,

and we shouldn't inappropriately use emotion,

but emotion isn't necessarily bad.

Like, for instance, in a legitimate emergency,

an emotional response is part of the, you know,

the biological mechanism to perhaps save your life,

you know, so it emer, uh, emotion isn't the enemy.

It, it's a tool that we can use.

But, you know, recognizing first step when somebody presents

something as urgent is to ask yourself,

is this in fact an emergency?

Because it, it, just

because somebody else's emotional doesn't mean it's

that it is in fact an emergency.

So, you know, we wanna check that out.

So now, once we're there,

and we're, we've dealt with the emotional part now,

and I'm saying this is happening in split seconds in our

head, but the next thing is to figure out,

out is whatever this person wants to do in response

to the urgency, is it in alignment with our objectives?

It's like, Hey, there's been a change.

The presentation has been moved up from Friday to Monday.

Uh, okay, we want this presentation to go, well,

it's really important that lines up.

Okay? The other thing that we wanna look at is, does this,

does this urgent situation

and our response to it align with our values?

So there are some things that you're just not willing to do.

Some things that like, no, that we're not gonna do that.

That's just wrong. You know,

and I don't, I don't necessarily mean wrong morally,

maybe it's wrong from a, you know,

just a, a factual standpoint.

Like, that's just not, not gonna get us closer to our goals.

But, you know, we, we can look at these things

and from those two different viewpoints, there's our, our,

what have already have been established is our objectives.

And will responding to this urg this urgent problem,

help get us closer to that.

And then for yourself

and for your career, you do want

to pay attention to your own values.

I mean, there are, there are the, the general values

of the group you're in or the lab you're in,

but you have your own values too.

There's some, there's some things

that you will personally consider just

to be a bridge too far and you're not willing to do.

And, and I'm, I don't wanna bring up any hot button issues

'cause I'm not, I I not even in a position

to choose sides on that,

but there are some things that people have been willing

to do in silence in the past that are no longer, uh,

ethic considered ethically viable, right?

And then there are some things that maybe it's just you,

like, you know, I, that's just not a place I want to go.

I don't wanna do that. And if you're finding

that somebody is jumping you with urgency about something,

you know, you don't wanna sell out your own

values to get that done.

You know, some people will, you know, it, it can be,

it could be a, you know, uh, an ethical kind of situation

that isn't even about science.

It just could be about people relations,

about social relations.

Somebody is wanting you to do something that is going to

have a negative impact on somebody else,

and you know, in your environment, on your team, whatever,

and you're just not willing to do that.

Um, and maybe they got a good reason why they want that.

Like maybe they're really trying to,

they're trying to cut some red tape.

They wanna get something done that other

person's gonna have a problem with.

Oh, well, they'll get over it.

You know, those are positions people take,

and it does impact what it's appropriate

for you to do in response.

Now, maybe you have to, then

you gotta come up with a hybrid.

How do I respond to what this person

who is demanding urgency wants and also get what I want?

Because often we look at

situations, we think they're binary.

It's either they get their way or I get my way.

Like, come on, you, you know, that's not true.

There's often, there's often opportunities to get what both

of you want, or at least

to get most of what both of you want.

And then you, you can wait how much they should get versus

how much I should get.

The other side of this question is one,

is it not appropriate to respond to an urgency?

Which, uh, I noticed that was the first thing you started

with when I asked about what is appropriate.

Well, there's stuff that isn't appropriate. That's true.

There certainly is. And you know, the,

the first thing is just

because they're acting like it's an emergency doesn't mean

it's, and maybe the appropriate response

for you right now is to calm them down or to, and

or to fill 'em in with facts that they may not be aware of.

Maybe, maybe their response is entirely appropriate

based on their, you know, they're limited data.

You give them more, and now they're okay.

Now they realize, okay, it's not as urgent as I thought.

And we've all had that happen.

Like, we gotta get this done by Friday and no leak cow.

Like, don't worry.

So-and-so's gonna be taking care of 90% of that tomorrow.

And so we don't really have that much on our plate.

Like, oh, okay, well then we're good.

The other thing is, when you find things that are really out

of alignment, um,

and I wanna key on the difference between something that is,

that is unaligned

and something that is non-aligned, that is, there are things

that there are, they go against alignment

with your objectives, right?

And then there are other things that are just not related

to your objective.

It's, they're not aligned because they're just not involved

and, you know, so you don't necessarily have

to pick up an adversarial position.

It's just like, that doesn't matter.

So don't worry about it. You know?

Um, and again, this,

this comes down sometimes just the social interaction and,

and the relationship we have with the people

that are bringing urgency to us.

Now, sometimes, of course, the person bringing the urgency

is you, it's your own.

You know, it's happening in your own head.

You're, you're having a conversation with yourself, right?

Oh my God, I gotta get this done.

I'm, I'm, I'm so screwed if I don't get this done.

Some of that self-talk is, is generating urgency without,

without even looking at what your values are,

without even looking at

what your objectives are without being rational about it.

And I know that can be a, a hard thing

for a scientist to accept.

Like, how dare you imply that I could ever be not rational?

You know? It's, it's core to my job,

and it is core to your job.

However, it's not

mutually exclusive from being a human, you know?

So we're gonna have our moments.

So I will pause for a second here, and I, uh,

and ask you, Tom, if there's

anything you wanna feed in here.

Yeah. So I think a lot of people listening, they'll be,

they'll be curious to know what to do in a,

when it's someone in a position of power, when there's a,

you know, really steep power gradient, putting stuff on you.

I'm thinking lab supervisors, you know,

do you have any comments on how,

how people could deal with that?

Well, funny you should bring that up.

This, this is exactly what I was thinking about here.

Like, who defines what's urgent anyway.

Just like you say, when the boss comes to you

and they say it, they say it's urgent.

And you may not be in a position to say, oh,

it's really not though.

So I mean, we, we do have to look at appropriate hierarchy.

And sometimes, sometimes we are not

as clued in as we might think.

We might think it's not that important,

but, um, that person who is up the chain

may have information we don't have

and may have objectives that, that aren't

totally on our, our plate.

It's not maybe that they aren't sharing those objectives

with you, but they don't really matter to you

that much if your job is to do the work in the lab, right?

If, if you're in that role, right?

And their job is to make sure you stay funded,

and their job is to make sure that, that the,

the resourcing is, is handled and the right staff is on it.

And it's not like somebody who is, uh, you know, more, more,

we're doing the line work is unaware of those things,

but it isn't their job to work it out so

that other person has that job.

So when they come to you and they tell you

that something is urgent, and you're like, yeah,

it's not urgent to me.

Um, it's not just about you.

Sometimes we respond to other people's urgency

because it matters to them.

Um, there, there is, um, you know,

of course there are people that their urgencies are,

are are just ridiculous or they just never stop.

You know, they just, they just run from one emergency

to the next and they generate emergencies.

Sometimes they generate them all in their own head,

but sometimes they actually create problems.

And, and we do have to respond to them as urgent just

because there, there they are and there's nothing we can do.

Um, we need to recognize that is part of the environment.

Though we are never gonna perfectly align with other people.

We're never gonna perfectly align.

But even our boss, even if we have a great boss,

even if we just, we just love the, you know,

our lab manager, we love our pi, what sometimes

we're just not gonna be on the same page.

And sometimes that means that we have to do, you know,

we gotta play on the team.

There are trade offs here.

And, you know, maybe it's not one-to-one,

maybe it's just this time I'm gonna do

what you want 'cause you want it.

And later I'll get some benefit from that

And some people, but I'm not gonna worry about drawing

a line straight from one to the other.

Sorry, Ken, just to jump in.

Some people thrive on urgency as well, you know,

I think it's important to recognize, uh, sometimes people,

and this might be a boss

or a supervisor, they're just not,

they're not organized people and it's just how they work

and it's probably how they work at, at their best.

Yeah. You know, recognizing, recognizing that in people

and then adjusting your response, uh,

accordingly, I think is important.

Yeah. Yeah. Re when the more you can recognize somebody

else's style, their, their core mindset about

how things operate, um, the easier it is for you.

It doesn't, doesn't mean you have to agree with it,

but if you can just understand it, like, okay,

I see where this is coming from.

And it makes it simpler for you if you never bothered

to think about where are they coming from,

that it can just look random and crazy.

And, you know, that makes it hard on you

when you are in a position to, um, to, uh,

to negotiate, to, to ask for trade offs.

Like, okay, I will do this for you,

but hey, later on, could you do this for me?

It's not a bad idea to look at what's on offer when somebody

brings you with something urgent.

It's an opportunity actually. Mm-Hmm.

At that moment, they're gonna be a little more open

because they, if they have a problem, they consider

to be urgent, they're gonna be willing to do things

to get that solved.

Well, that might be the moment to ask for that help.

Now, I'm not talking about doing this in a manipulative way,

but it's, it's about just, you know,

timing things correctly.

Sometimes you got something you did wanna bring up

and you know, I'm waiting for the right moment.

Well, this might be the right moment.

So, you know, make it work for everybody.

You wanna win-win situation,

but, uh, responding to other people's urgency can,

can open opportunities for you

that you might not otherwise have.

So why not?

You know, urgency doesn't have

to be bad, is the bottom line.

It can, it can, as Tom as you just mentioned, it can be a,

a personal motivator.

Uh, what I'm talking about here is it can be just a way to

make better use of your social interaction and,

and you can make it work for you.

And if there was no urgency at all, ever,

wouldn't you be bored?

I, we are looking for excitement.

We are looking for challenges.

We are, we are looking to solve problems.

So, I mean, that's, that's part

of the whole, the whole game here.

It's, it's what we do, it's what you do as scientists, so

why not make it work for you?

All right. Well, Tom,

is there anything else you'd like to add at this point?

Well,

You know, we, we keep going back to this removing,

or it can, it, it, it can be emotional when, when, you know,

people come to you with something you,

you don't feel you have got time

to get it done or it's not your job. Mm-Hmm.

Yeah. Are there any practical,

is there any practical advice you'd have, you know,

what you can do to remove, remove the emotion

from, from your response?

Because, uh, I'm, I'm, I think I'm quite a hot head.

You know, I think I, people ask me in the red

mist descends a little bit.

Um, yeah. So what, what, what advice would you give?

Would you give me as a, as a someone who would just see red?

Yeah. Well, the, the first thing I would say is that I,

I don't entirely accept the premise of the question.

Okay. Some of your, some emotional response is fine.

It's maybe, maybe it's just certain kinds

of emotional responses are the ones you wanna,

you wanna do away with.

So, uh, I love that analogy of the red, red mist.

If it's just mist, it's fine.

But if it turns red, okay, this is the problem.

So, you know, at that moment, it, it's,

it's pause and reflect.

You know, the, I, when we, we have two things

that we can do, and ever we're confronted we can, we can

just respond immediately or we can pause

and determine what our reply will be.

And in the moment when we, you know, our, you know, our,

every system is telling us to lash back, that pause is

where all the strength is

because we won't necessarily

automatically make the right judgment in that moment.

If we will just take a moment and go, you know what?

Hang on, hang on, let me look at my calendar.

You know, and, and it's, it's fine to give your, you know,

give a, give a a reason why you're not responding just yet.

I need to check my calendar. I need to talk to Cynthia.

I, you know, I, I need

to finish this task I'm handling right now,

but I'm, you're my full attention, right?

Is on when I'm done, give your that, give yourself

that chance to pause

and it, it, it's, you know, it all works out fine, then you,

then you're gonna make better choices

and that person will calm down too.

'cause in that pause, they get to, they get

to ponder for a moment too.

And, you know, sometimes people won't accept that.

Like, no, you, I, I have to have this right now.

Well, now, now you got a clear picture, okay?

They're, they're really in a bad spot.

And you know, whether their urgency is, is, uh, caused

by a problem they created

or one that was impressed upon them.

You know, it doesn't matter at that moment that

what what matters right now is that really,

really is bothering them.

And that's the thing you're wanting to respond to now,

more than perhaps the problem itself.

It's like, how can I be supportive of this person right now?

Now, sometimes you don't wanna be supportive.

It's like, this is, I can't believe I took this job to work

for this jerk, and he's once again, being a jerk.

And, and we, we forget that that's,

that's a human being too, who's having their own

problems and pressures.

And that's not to, to excuse bad behavior front anyone,

but to just see like, all right,

I see what's going on right now.

And again, even of that, that,

that breath you take is literally just a breath that,

you know, that split second, it could be enough

to keep you from doing something you'll regret. Yeah.

Think a lot of people, they transfer

their urgency as well, right?

Oh yeah. Your boss or, you know, someone you work with,

they're rushed around for something

that's not directly related to you.

And then, and then they, they yeah, exactly.

That, the urgency on you and it might not be your problem

and it kind of becomes yours.

And I guess it's, you know, it's up up to you

to decide what, what you take on.

It depends on your relationship with that, that individual,

but trying to recognize when it's just transferred urgency.

Yeah. Yeah. A word for that is projection.

So maybe they come to you

and they tell you that it's urgent that you do X

what actually, what they're worried about is,

y it has nothing to do with you,

but they just needed to, they needed to push

that urgency out somewhere.

Mm-Hmm. And you just have to be the first one they saw.

And so you got the brunt of it.

So would you try and turn that back around?

Sorry, Kim, would you try and turn that back around on them?

Would you, would your advice be to let them know

that that's what they're doing?

Or would you just suck it up the first few times?

Well, I guess it comes down to first, do you have the kind

of relationship where you can say that, you know, if you,

if you do, it's really great if you can nip it in the bud,

but perhaps that you don't have that,

or in the moment it doesn't feel like, eh,

I don't know if I have an opening here,

but at, at that point, it may be best to deflect.

Like, I'll, I'll, I'll look at that in a minute.

And sometimes that's all they really need right now.

They just, they just needed to know

that somebody's paying attention.

And you know, me, you may well look at it in a minute

and go, yep, it's still not urgent, and off you go.

Right?

But If we just ignore people, if we act like, oh,

that was stupid, and you're stupid, you know, well,

nobody reacts well to that.

So, and it is amazing to me too, how, how often that kind

of thing happens between really smart people, you know,

they're smart, they know they're smart,

they know you're smart,

and yet you're acting like they're stupid.

And so that doesn't, that doesn't add up for anybody. Like,

It doesn't get the most outta

your relationship with them as well.

Going back to, uh, you know, urgency being an opportunity

to get something you want, that's Yeah.

Only if you're dealing well with each other

emotionally actually saying what you mean.

Yeah. And, you know, I'll grant you

that sometimes there are people that you just don't have

that relationship with at this point.

And whether it's because you, you've never developed it

or it's a new relationship,

or there has, there have been,

there's been bad blood in the past,

and so that, that's still hanging around.

You know, you don't wanna ignore the fact

that the relationship is not yet there.

That's fine. But then, then what kicks in, well,

what well I have to kick in is professionalism.

What would a professional do right now with this request?

And you can operate from there.

And what that will often happen there too, is that'll,

that'll take out the, the underlying, well,

last time they really worked me over,

and so they're probably doing that again this time.

It'll remove that. It's just, okay,

what would a professional do now?

And just do what they would do.

And, and, you know, you can, you don't have to even make it.

What would I, as a professional do now?

Just what would any professional do now?

And sometimes if you have somebody who around you

who is a good, who is a good example in this kind of area,

I go, you know, what would Cynthia do now?

What would Bob do now? And, and follow that, you know,

and it's not a bad idea to ask for help from mentor, um,

if you have such a thing in your lab

or in, you know, in your work life

where you can call on them, you know, this happened today

and I didn't know what to do.

And, and see what they have to say.

And, you know, and when you could, you can have

that conversation later.

It doesn't matter what you did, maybe what you did,

you really, well, that wasn't a great solution.

Yeah. But what should I have done?

And just bank that for later,

you know, we're gonna make mistakes.

Sorry. It's a good point. You make having a, you know,

having, because sometimes things need to get done

and you've got a limited amount of time,

but if you've got someone who understands your situation,

maybe is on a similar, you know, um, wage

or parallel to you within, within

whatever job you have, and mm-hmm.

You know, maybe when the legitimately urgent stuff comes in,

if you develop that relationship

enough, they will, they will help you out.

I, I certainly had a mentor like

that when I was doing my PhD, um, just

because the field we were in protein purification,

we were often working the deadlines

and it was easy for us to just take on a little bit

of each other's job to help, you know,

help us both out in the, in the long run.

And it was, it was a, yeah, it was a fruitful

relationship. Um, yeah.

Sanity check. Yeah. Yeah.

It was, it was, it was a sanity check, you know,

it, it was within reason.

It's like, could you just do this bit of work for me?

Um, I won't be around the lab where if I do it,

I'll actually be hours out my day to come to the lab,

you know, could you just do this?

Um, obviously with the tat agreement

of reciprocation later down the line.

Um, so I think that's something

people in the lab could actively work towards

and not working in isolation.

Yeah, it, it helps too to take these, these, uh,

urgent moments and use them to build your, your, your,

um, social network to build your team to,

to build your relationships that, that will pay off later.

Maybe it'll pay off later next week,

but, uh, you know, maybe it'll pay off later in your career.

You know, having made made a good impression

on a variety of people.

You never know where they're gonna end up in the future,

where you're gonna end up in the future.

And so the, these kind of things are investments.

So it isn't always about, I will get this back later in a,

you know, what, this side of the horizon,

maybe the later will be in the other

side of, of the horizon.

And that's perfectly fine.

And it, it's great to have some of that stuff banked up

because you never know when it's gonna show up

and really make a difference.

One thing as well, that, that I noticed,

and it is true of any job,

but is as you become more experienced,

more becomes expected of you.

Um, and,

and that leads directly to more being asked

of you, um, right.

'cause you can do more and you're capable of doing more.

It doesn't mean you've always got the time, you know,

the time in your calendar to, um, achieve it.

And I guess this comes back to another point I wanted

to make about, you know, workload management.

And do you have any advice for when, you know, when you are,

when you are rushed off your feet,

are there some recommendations you have just

for workload management when there are loads

of legitimately urgent matters,

you know, all happening at once?

Well, I, I guess what happens, we go back to that,

that first point we were talking about is what aligns

with your objectives and what aligns with your values.

Um, if you, if you're fine, you know,

there could be a number of things that align

with both your objectives and your values,

and you just don't have time.

I mean, there are, there are human limits, right?

So at that point, we gotta kind of do triage.

It's like, what really is critical here?

And, and it may be that, I mean, as biologists,

you're often working with living things

and you can't just say, well, I'm gonna take care of two

of the three things that are necessary to keep this,

this sample alive.

You have to take care of all three, right?

Well, that means you gotta find another way.

If it can't fit into your calendar,

then you gotta get some help.

And, and you gotta alert the boss to let 'em know, like,

maybe it's not my job to solve this problem.

I need to alert the boss that this problem exists

and it's gotta get solved.

So, and I can't solve it.

And I, we, some bosses hate, hate for you

to bring them problems without solutions,

but the fact is, they need to know about problems.

Even if you don't know the solution

Often found when I was, you know, doing extra work

for people, all that it took for me to become okay

with doing that is recognition.

It's amazing how far recognition goes.

So I would also advise, you know,

if people are helping you out, do take the time, you know,

just to signal how that, that, that, that is a help. Um,

Oh yeah, in two ways.

Tell, tell them, but also praise them in front of others,

and especially others whose, you know, like their boss or,

or other, you know, people of higher stature, that that kind

of thing really goes a long way.

I just wanted to bring it back to, um,

you mentioned our project management tool,

and then we're also spoken a lot about, um,

urgency trigger and emotional response.

It's funny, isn't it? Our overdue things,

they're always in, they're always in red.

We should always, we should put 'em in blue

or something, you know, carbon, ocean colors.

But you know, even the people who've designed this project

management tool, you know,

that they're aware on some unconscious level of urgent,

urgent, urgent, you know, red

and Yeah, I dunno, well, yeah, how deep that goes.

A lot of communications methods we use now, you know,

like, you know, um, like Skype or Telegram

or whatever, I found that, that the,

the hangup button is usually in red.

Yeah. But I'm drawn to red.

How Many times I've hung up on

people because it was red.

I can imagine that into a lot of trouble.

That is pretty funny. Um, well, I dunno if any

of the audience has any questions, um, please feel free

to put them, uh, you know, into the chat box if, if you do,

um, I dunno if you've got any more questions for me, Ken,

but, um, that, that,

that was all I wanted to ask for you in this session session.

Well, here's, here's a, a

barrier your soul kind of question.

Have you ever found yourself in a situation

where somebody came to you with something urgent

and you just, you just reacted wrong?

You, you, you just wouldn't, you wouldn't handle the problem

that they wanted you to handle and it came back around

and now you're like, oh man, I should have listened.

Oh, that's a good one. Um,

Not, not to the point

where it's trashed a relationship or a project.

Um, or at least nothing that jumps out as one

of those things that haunts me,

you know, when I go to sleep.

But, um, I do find my, my barrier to

what I would say is much, much lower, you know,

and I recognize that in, in myself.

So, you know, I'm choppier I'm less productive.

I've become more problems focused and solution focused.

Uh, yeah. And, and, and, and,

and in this job here, um, it's never one big thing,

you know, it's, it's small things.

Whereas if I was in a different

job, perhaps that would be the case.

You know, there'd be fewer, bigger things

and maybe my reaction would be proportionate.

Right. What I was thinking about you,

Well, I was thinking about what, what happened here.

And I mentioned at the beginning, uh, I,

I did learn a lesson here for like,

I did not handle the task of letting you know what,

what the outline of our discussion was gonna

be until the last second.

Like, it didn't turn out bad, you

Know, it didn't turn Out bad.

I know you can handle it, but

I thought it was some massive challenge, Ken.

I thought we're going a couple of levels

deep, like inception.

Well, I, I, I know that there are other people.

If I did that with, it would not have turned out well.

I, and I got, I got a warning,

so I'll not fail that warning again.

Well, I'm glad and it's

Good to look, look for that stuff, you know, like, okay,

I dodged a bullet, but let's, let's not have

to dodge a bullets in the future.

I promise to be nice. Alright.

Alright, Ken, on that, on that positive note,

we've not got any, um, we've not got any questions from our

audience today, but, um, yeah,

unless you've got anything else Ken to add, um,

I'll, I'll, I'll wrap us up. Looks

Good. Okay.

Yeah. So thank you everybody.

We've reached out over time and thanks again, Ken,

for you know, your insight in these sessions as always.

And thanks to everybody who took the time outta the day

to tune in live today, um, and on demand in the future.

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